April Interviews with Latin Jazz Corner
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 at 1:05PM Our sincere thanks to Chip Boaz at the Latin Jazz Corner for a great interview and article on Mitch Frohman. Chip has a great Blog, which he puts a lot of work into! If you have not checked it out yet, you can access it here:
This is a three part interview.
Part 1
Wind players that travel through the Latin Jazz world gain a totally different experience than most rhythm section players. While the rhythm section players garner much of the spotlight due to the music’s percussive intensity, wind players work as the sidemen, providing the music’s stable side. The great wind players certainly turn up the heat with their improvisations, and they make substantial contributions to the Latin Jazz world. The great wind players understand clave, can often play percussion patterns, compose Latin Jazz charts, and have a firm understanding of the music’s history. The skills that these first rate Latin Jazz wind players carry allow them to base their lives around the style, working with many of the genre’s legendary musicians. Wind players may not live their lives in the spotlight of the Latin Jazz world, but the wind players that truly spend their lives immersed in the style have long and interesting careers.
Saxophonist and flautist Mitch Frohman has been one of the most prominent wind players in the Latin Jazz world for decades, adding his defined artistic voice to a variety of the genre’s great bands. Fresh from college, he discovered New York’s thriving Latin music scene, earning work as a sub with greats such as Charlie Palmieri. He gained a true education on the bandstand, learning the details of Afro-Cuban rhythms while he played alongside Tito Puente. Frohman earned a widespread reputation as a strong woodwinds player and when Puente focused on a smaller Latin Jazz Ensemble, Frohman found a spot in percussionist Mongo Santamaria’s band. He built a strong bond with the other wind players in Santamaria’s band, and when they all left the group, they formed another Latin Jazz supergroup, The Bronx Horns. Since then, Frohman has found steady work as a member of The Bronx Horns, The Latin Giants of Jazz, and The Spanish Harlem Orchestra. For the last thirty years, Frohman has been one of the top wind players in Latin Jazz, working alongside the major names in the genre.
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LATIN JAZZ CORNER: You grew up in the Bronx and started playing music in elementary school band. At the time, there were a wealth of great Latin and jazz musicians in the area – do you have any early memories of local musicians that inspired your love for music?
MITCH FROHMAN: Not in elementary school, when I was in third, fourth, fifth grade and junior high school, they had a band program in junior high school. You know, I made the band program, but at that age I think I was more into the popular artists of the day. The Beatles and the musicians that any other 10-year-old kid would listen to. I was really into sports more than music at that age.
LJC: When you decided to focus on music, what were some of your initial inspirations?
MF: After I graduated from high school, I went to the State University of New York at New Paltz. That was my first college; it was a State University about an hour and a half or two hours from New York City. I actually played junior varsity basketball and baseball; I also started taking music lessons there and playing in the band program. I got injured towards the end of my first year and then made a decision to concentrate more on music. Then I transferred to the University of Miami School of Music, where I really immersed myself in it.
LJC: Was there a Latin music scene down, or were you doing more straight ahead jazz?
MF: This had nothing to do with Latin music. When you’re learning to play your instrument, you’re just learning the instrument. I was taking regular classical saxophone lessons and also immersing myself in the jazz program – they have a wonderful jazz program down there. This was in the early seventies.
LJC: You eventually came back up to New York in 1975, what type of gigs did you jump into at first?
MF: It was just anything. As a young musician, you would try to play anything - a little rock band, sit in with a jazz rehearsal band, a wedding, a bar mitzvah, a Latin band – I mean, just whatever you can. I got very fortunate and within a year of graduating college, I started to substitute in some Latin bands. I substituted with Charlie Palmieri, I played with Kako’s band, and then I was substituting steadily in Tito Puente’s band. And then after about a year of substituting in Tito Puente’s band, one of the musicians left, and I was offered the job.
But I should say, my first experience in a real Latin band was the opportunity to sit in with Joe Cuba. When I graduated college, I was playing at a hotel for older people up in the Catskill Mountains in the summer. Joe Cuba was playing at The Pines Hotel down the road from where I was playing. When I’d be finished, I’d take a drive over there and hang out and listen to them. Joe Cuba let me sit in once in a while during that summer. That was kind of my first experience of playing with a real authentic Latin group. And then after that I started to substitute with Tito Puente, Charlie Palmieri, Kako, with many different of the Latin bands, until I started to play with Tito Puente steady.
LJC: When you first joined Puente’s band on a regular basis, was that 1977?
MF: I was subbing for a year and then I officially joined his band on October 3, 1977.
LJC: That was about the time that they recorded Homenaje a Beny Moré, Volume 1 . . .
MF: I subbed with the band when they had actually just finished recording the La Leyenda record. I subbed on the rehearsals for the recording, but I joined the band steady after they made that record. And then the first Beny Moré record -Homenaje a Beny Moré, Volume 1 – was the first record that I did. I think they recorded that about a year after I joined the band.
LJC: At the time, Puente was working pretty steady – 6 or 7 nights a week. What was the creative energy like in the band?
MF: It was a small big band; the steady working unit was three saxes (we recorded with four saxes, but the steady working unit was three saxes), and a full brass section, rhythm section, and vocals. Basically, we were playing dances; we weren’t doing as much traveling at that time. We were playing what was called the cuchifrito circuit that was going strong then, in the mid-seventies. We were playing dances every night, and doubling or tripling on the weekends. I was getting paid to learn a whole other style of music – it was like my graduate school in music. It was wonderful for me. There were other musicians who were in their fifties or sixties in the band, so the creative process was probably different for them at the time. But I was 22, 23 years old, so for me, everything was an exciting experience.
LJC: At the time, I’ve read that you played with Charlie Palmieri, Eddie Palmieri, Machito, and Larry Harlow . . .
MF: I never played steady with Eddie Palmieri. We would play opposite him or he would be a guest with Tito’s band. Years later, we did concerts together. At that time, I did substitute many times with Charlie Palmieri’s band and many other bands in New York that had saxophones. I did sub many times with Machito’s Orchestra during the eighties, as one of the other big bands of the area.
Once I joined Tito Puente’s band, we were working every single night, so there was not as much opportunity for me to play with other bands. It was a steady job. For a period of years after I joined Tito’s band, I really didn’t play with any other people because we were playing full time. When we started to get more into traveling and not doing the cuchifrito circuit as much, you know playing every single night at each club, I had the availability to play with many more of the different Latin and Latin Jazz bands from the New York area. People had gotten to know me more after a few years.
LJC: That would have been the early eighties, right?
MF: Well, he started his Latin Jazz Ensemble, so there were times that he would take off and play with his Latin Jazz Ensemble. And so then there would be some periods where I would be freer to play with other people. It wasn’t until the early nineties that he combined his Latin Jazz Ensemble and his big band so that it was like a large Latin Jazz Ensemble, which I was a member of. We did everything. But during the mid-eighties, he kind of still played mainly with his big band, which I was the saxophone and flute soloist; but with his Latin Jazz Ensemble, Mario Rivera was the saxophone player. Although when Mario would go play with Dizzy Gillespie’s United Nations Orchestra, then I would sub for Mario in Tito’s Latin Jazz Ensemble. So I got a taste of that early on. I also became a member in 1988 for four years with Mongo Santamaria, while still keeping my job with Tito Puente. I did extensive traveling with Mongo Santamaria as his featured saxophone player and flute soloist.
LJC: You really played with the two giants of music. When you started with Mongo in ’88, what where the differences that you experienced between his band and Puente? They are both incredible figures in the music, but very different stylistically.
MF: Oh, of course. With Mongo, it was a small conglomeration – three horns (two saxes and a trumpet), with the saxes doubling on flute. In Mongo’s band, the horn section stood in front of the band, alongside Mongo. We played more of the jazz clubs. It was not really a dance band at that time. Mongo had dance bands earlier in his career, but at this time, it was mainly an Afro-Cuban Latin Jazz band. We did play some typical music, but it was more of a concert, Afro-Cuban band. It was more along the lines of a jazz band the way that it was set up – we were given the opportunity to take more extensive solos and be a little more part of . . . how can I say this? It was more of a total high energy show with Tito while with Mongo it probably coming from a little more of a jazz sensibility, on a different level.
The other thing with Mongo that was a little different than Tito was the way that Mongo approached 6/8 Afro-Cuban rhythms – it was really on another level. It was as authentic as you can get. While I was very, very, very well versed in all the traditional Latin rhythms from playing many, many years with Tito Puente, playing these 6/8 rhythms with Mongo on tunes like Afro-Blue, it was a different approach than the way that many of the New York Latin bands approached the 6/8 rhythm. So I would say that I got a real education on how to play 6/8 rhythms during the years with Mongo. They both – Mongo and Tito – were a school unto themselves, in different forms of Latin American music.
LJC: I noticed too, during your time with Mongo, on the album Olé Ola, you contributed a song, “Jeannie’s Tune.” Was this you first leap into composing and getting your songs recorded?
MF: I had composed since I was in college, but that was the first opportunity that I had to have a tune recorded on a professional level and put on a CD. So, yes, that was my first tune that was ever recorded. That was not my first tune that I had written, but it was my first tune that was recorded on a professional level.
JLC: Was Mongo pretty open to band members contributing things and working together?
MF: Yes, that also was probably more of a difference between Tito and Mongo’s band. With Mongo, we had a little more freedom to participate in the writing process and contributing songs to the repertoire. Whereas Tito, being such a great writer, he wrote a lot of his own stuff. But with Mongo, the guys in the band were given the opportunity to write stuff for the band, and then have it played and recorded. Mongo was definitely receptive to that.
Although, a few years after, I had a wonderful tune called “Point East Memories,” that Tito recorded on his Special Delivery album for Concord Picante. But, you know, that was after many more years of playing with Tito. I think he was more receptive to contributions from his band members as the years went on, but Mongo was definitely always open to his band members contributing to the repertoire.
LJC: Are there any memories that you share with us about Mongo as a person? What was he like?
MF: Well, when I joined the band, he was fairly quiet and fairly reserved. I had heard from other musicians that played with him in the sixties and early seventies, that at time, he was more talkative with the audience and a more outgoing person. He was an older gentleman when I joined the band. He was an incredible, deep, spiritual musician, one of the deepest percussionists that ever lived. He was nice to us; once in a while, he would open up and tell us some stories of the past and different things. But Mongo was more showing what he wanted by example. Whereas Tito might be able to talk to us more in musical terms – he was an accomplished arranger, writer, and composer. He played many, many, many different instruments. Mongo was one of the deepest percussionists that ever lived and I think demonstrated more by example. Where Tito had a much more outgoing personality, Mongo had a much more reserved personality.
Part 2
When a group of musicians share a common background, musical philosophy, or goal, the music that they create often shines with a special glow. Their shared experiences allow them to find sympathetic ideals that make the process of music making an easier experience. They can listen more closely and blend tone, phrasing, and stylist interpretation into a unified whole. Their improvisational exchanges start rising to a magical level that can’t be explained in words, but simply experienced. Sometimes these magical moments are brief and fleeting, one incredible gig that never again becomes a reality. Every musician desires those magical moments in their performances though, so when they encounter a group of like-minded musicians, they should certainly strive to keep them together.
Mitch Frohman found the right combination of musicians while working as a member of Mongo Santamaria’s band and he took the necessary steps to keep the group together. Santamaria’s horn section at the time included Frohman, saxophonist Bobby Porcelli, and trumpet player Ray Vega. All three musicians had worked with Puente, shared a broad knowledge of both jazz and Latin music, and they were at the top of their game. They found a common voice as a section, and they recognized the power of that unity before they left Santamaria’s group. The three musicians gathered together, found a rhythm section, compiled some original compositions, and formed The Bronx Horns. The new band offered a distinct sound and years of experience; they recorded two albums and performed around the world. As The Bronx Horns became a strong voice in the Latin Jazz world, the formation of the group marked another milestone in Frohman’s career.
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LATIN JAZZ CORNER: One of my favorite Mongo albums that you play on is Live at Jazz Alley. That had Ray Vega and Bobby Porcelli on there with you, which seemed like a step into The Bronx Horns. How did you guys start that group and what was your initial inspiration?
MITCH FROHMAN: Well, we were getting many, many compliments over the years – we had a wonderful blend together. You know, Bobby is one of the greatest alto players alive, playing this music. I’m sure that I can also speak for Ray; for me and Ray to play alongside Bobby was just a wonderful experience. Plus I had played with Bobby for many, many years, next to him in Tito Puente’s band, so I was very fortunate to have that influence in my playing. We all grew up in the Bronx, and when we were introduced on every gig, it would be, “ And from the Bronx, New York – Bobby Porcelli. And from the Bronx, New York – Ray Vega. And from the Bronx, New York – Mitch Frohman.” And you know, some people would kind of chuckle and call us the Bronx Boys, or the guys from the Bronx. It kind of rang a bell in my head. When we all left Mongo’s band in the early nineties, I kind of wanted to keep the horn section together, and I had some music that I had written. So I called some rehearsals, and got a rhythm section together. Basically, I changed it to the Bronx Horns, because I thought it was a catchy name, but it was also true. We all grew up in the Bronx and I basically started The Bronx Horns with the same horn section that we had in Mongo’s band, because we had a nice sound together.
LJC: The rhythm section that you guys had initially - and the rhythm section that you have now – is massive! How did you get those guys together?
MF: Well, when you’re in the business for a long time, you have relationships with people. These are all guys that I had been working with in different situations over the years, and I loved their playing. So these were just guys that were professional associates of mine.
LJC: Catch the Feeling was the first Bronx Horns album . . .
MF: I actually wrote that song during my years with Mongo, and we played it with Mongo Santamaria – he included it in the repertoire. I was actually hoping that he was going to record it, but I never got the opportunity to record it with him. Now I’m kind of happy because I was able to record it on my first album. But that tune was actually first played during my tenure with Mongo’s band.
LJC: Most of that album is compositions from you, Ray, and Bobby – were a lot of those songs that you had written earlier or did they come together around the album?
MF: Well, there was another song on the record that was called “Get Back In” which Bobby Porcelli wrote probably 30 years earlier – another one that Mongo played but never recorded. And then there were some songs that we had played years earlier with a big band that I had with this piano player Joe Mannazi in the early eighties. I had tunes like “Mitch’s Mambo” and “King Jacob” and some other tunes that were on that CD. I had big band versions of that which I then scaled down for three horns to record. I’m not exactly sure when Ray had written his tunes . . . well, I know there’s one tune on the record, “Mambo Melani,” that Ray wrote for his first daughter, so that was probably a recent tune, because his daughter had just been born, not too long before we recorded the record. Some tunes were tunes that had been written a long time ago by Bobby or myself, and some tunes were written fairly recently for the recording.
LJC: I saw you guys play in the late nineties at the San Jose Jazz Festival, it’s an incredible live group. I know you guys are all very busy – initially did the group get out and perform much?
MF: Well, I was still playing steady with Tito Puente’s band, so that was always my primary job, as far as my steady monetary employment for supporting my family. We did some touring, you know, we did some festivals around Europe and the United States. Never on a full time basis though. Basically the first record company that put Catch the Feeling out ripped us off and never paid me a penny in royalties. We had a licensing deal with them which has since expired, so now I own the product. Then the records were re-released by company called 32 Jazz in the late nineties, and within a year, that company went bankrupt and I never got a penny from them. I basically had not the best luck with record companies, although the record company Timeless that recorded us on the Silver in the Bronx album, we did get paid for the CD. But after the initial tours that we did in Europe for them, they basically never supported or promoted the CD. What we got, we got on reputation, which was nice, but I didn’t hustle the band that much, it was more of a part time thing. What I’m doing now, I’m starting to make a push this year, with a website, thebornxhorns.com, and I’m making a push to get the band out more. I’ve added a vocalist, Frankie Vazquez, so that, kind of like what Tito used to do with his Latin Jazz Ensemble, and his big band, where he would play maybe half a set Latin Jazz and then maybe half a set typical dance music for the people. I’m doing the same thing with The Bronx Horns where we have the ability to play the typical dance music and also the Latin Jazz, depending on the requirements for the gig and for the audience. So I’m making more of a push right now to get the band back out there.
LJC: Silver in the Bronx was a great record, how did you decide to create the tribute to Horace Silver – was it an appreciation of his music or did it seem like a natural fit for Latin Jazz?
MF: A combination of both. I was always a big fan of Horace Silver’s music and his music lent itself so effortlessly to our Latin rhythms. So I took a long time in compiling a list of songs and then going down and conferring with some of the guys. There were so many songs to choose from – we would make a list, come up with about 30 or 40 tunes, and then knock it down to 15 or 20 tunes, and then knock it down to a final list. And then I came up with the idea of picking which rhythms we would apply to each tunes. Instead of just doing the regular formula – maybe one tune would be a mambo jazz tune, another tune we would play a cha cha or boogaloo. Another tune we’d play an Afro-Cuban 6/8, another tune we’d play an Afro or a bolero. Just using many different forms of the Latin rhythms, and seeing which ones fit the melodies of Horace’s tunes. And then the other thing was choosing which tunes to give which the arrangers. For example, Marty Sheller, who did the arrangement and was the original trumpet player for Mongo’s “Watermelon Man” - I specifically gave him a tune called “Home Cookin’” to do in that cha cha-boogaloo feel. I wanted that type of feeling and he’s as good as anybody in the world for that kind of thing. And then the other arrangers - Joe Madera and Oscar Hernandez - Ray Vega contributed a few arrangements; they took tunes that they felt would show off their arranging strengths. So we put a lot of thought into it and I’m very proud of how it came out.
LJC: Around that time, Tito Puente died. You’ve said a lot of great things about Tito, but if you could isolate one thing that you took away from those years, what would that be?
MF: That’s hard to pin down. I was in his band for 25 years! It’s not one thing. He was a hard worker; the music was always the first thing in his life. He had his own school of music. There was also the school of Machito. It was like the Count Basie band and the Duke Ellington band – they were all great but they had their own styles and schools of music. It was a very exciting way of playing. It was a very percussive way of learning how to play this music. Also I guess seeing how to play this music in an exciting fashion without always having to play super loud. Tito could play exciting and fast, but with the sensibilities of a jazz drummer. He was a studied percussionist; he had the technique in his wrist. Where maybe some other Latin percussionists play more with their arms, Tito had the sensibilities of the great wrist action. It was learning how to play this music at many dynamic levels but in a very exciting way. You know, the show must go on. And basically playing all styles of Latin music, which I feel is a lost art with a lot of the bands today. Where the bands will either just play salsa or they’ll just play merengue or they’ll just play bachata. We had more than 1000 tunes in the book and we would play every type of function available. The first time I ever played a merengue was in Tito Puente’s band. We had merengues in the band, we had cumbias, we had paso dobles, and we had danzones. It was just “salsa.” He always used to joke how the word salsa was just a ridiculous marketing term. You know, we didn’t just play mambo, cha cha, and bolero, we played all types of Latin American rhythms. We even played some big band jazz tunes when we would play some society parties where they would want a couple of swing tunes mixed in. He even had that in the book. I got the appreciation of all forms of Latin American music and rhythms that we played. He was a very diverse musician. When I joined his band, I didn’t really know anything about Latin flute, but the person whose place I took did the Latin flute solos. So I basically immersed myself in learning that style, and I think that I’ve become a fairly good Latin flute player over the years. And that was something that I developed in his band.
Part 3
When a musician develops a reputation as a reliable sideman, a strong leader, and an exciting artistic voice, the musical world seems ripe with opportunities. They reach the first call spot for numerous top-notch bands, finding a regular stream of work in an artistically invigorating environment. Other musicians rely upon them as subs and collaborators, building upon the trust established over years of hard work. Their own projects often thrive, fueled by a strong work ethic and the passionate support of their professional associations. Most importantly, a fan base of long time listeners relate to their past work in different contexts, and they want to hear more. Long standing performance commitments may remain steady or they may disappear; but a musician with a career based upon a strong performance history will find more work ahead.
By the time that Tito Puente died in 2000, Frohman had established himself as a major player in the Latin Jazz world. Puente’s passing meant the end of an era in Frohman’s career, but the strength of his reputation left him with ample musical opportunities. The Bronx Horns existed as an established Latin Jazz group, with two albums recorded and numerous live dates. The Puente band continued to tour after El Rey’s death, with pianist Eddie Palmieri serving as a guest artist. Once the band stopped performing under Puente’s name, percussionists Jose Madera and Johnny Rodriguez formed a new Palladium style big band, The Latin Giants of Jazz, and recruited Frohman as both sax player and road manager. At the same time, pianist Oscar Hernandez recruited Frohman as an original member of The Spanish Harlem Orchestra, revisiting the 1970s Fania-era salsa sound with some of the best in the genre. As Frohman moves into the future, he continues to supply the sax sound to some of the top bands in the Latin Jazz world.
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LATIN JAZZ CORNER: After Tito died, together with Jose Madera and Johnny Rodriguez, you put together The Latin Giants of Jazz . . .
MITCH FROHMAN: Well, Johnny put that together with Joe being the musical director. And then I, being a long time member (of Puente’s band) and very close friends with Johnny and Joe, became the straw boss or the road manager of the band. But that was really something formed by Johnny and then with Joe being the musical director.
LJC: What does your role as road manager consist of?
MF: Well, I hire the guys – with Johnny and Joe’s approval, I choose the personnel. Like I said, with the approval of Johnny and Joe – if there was somebody that they wanted that I didn’t or somebody that I wanted that they didn’t, then I definitely I defer to them. I’m third in command. So I make the phone, you know, I’m kind of like the middleman, the liaison between the guys and Johnny and Joe. Kind of like the day to day stuff –telling them what time to show up, what to wear, how much we’re getting paid, that type of stuff.
And I should mention, one thing that seems to get lost in the history of all this stuff, the person that really was the leader behind the scene of the Tito Puente Orchestra was a gentleman named Jimmy Frisaura. He started the band with Tito Puente, I think back in 1948, and he died a few years before Tito. But he really kept the Tito Puente Orchestra together. He was the trumpet player and Tito’s partner in the band. He ran the band in the day to day operations; I’m kind of doing, on a much lower level, the kind of things that he did, with The Latin Giants.
LJC: Wow, that’s really interesting, I didn’t know that about Jimmy Frisaura.
MF: Yea, that gets lost in the history and that’s something. Jimmy Frisaura was in Pupi Campo’s band with Tito Puente and then they broke off and they formed The Picadilly Boys in 1948. And then a little after that, they put Tito’s name in front and it became The Tito Puente Orchestra. Without Jimmy, Tito would not been able to have a band for fifty years. He would have been one of the greatest Latin American musicians there was, and had bands, and been a featured soloists, but as far as keeping a steady, working big band together, that was because of Jimmy Frisaura.
LJC: The first album, The Latin Giants Play the Music of the Palladium, that one had a distinctly more jazz focus. I imagine as a horn player, it much have been so incredible to be playing in that big band setting.
MF: Oh, it was wonderful. And it’s always wonderful as a saxophone player to play with just a great sax section, which you don’t get a chance to do that often. Many of the bands that I play with, you know, I’m the only saxophone player in the band. They have mainly a brass section and then they’ll have one saxophone player – at the most two. But to play with an all-star five saxophone section is just wonderful. That was classic concert Latin American music.
LJC: Any favorite tracks from that album?
MF: You know, you like different things for many different reasons. There’s a track called “Sunny Ray Mambo” by Ray Santos that I have a featured solo on, so I guess I’m biased towards that. But I like all the stuff for different reasons. I don’t know . . . if you’re a rock and roll fan, what’s your favorite Beatles tune; if you’re a jazz fan, what’s your favorite Coltrane tune; I mean, there’s so much. For different reasons, you like different things. Most good musicians have diverse tastes and don’t focus on one or two things but just appreciate all good things.
LJC: One of the things that stands out to me on the second album, Trip to Mamboland, there’s one track, “Flamenco Mood,” that features one of the last recorded solos of Mario Rivera. I imagine that you spent quite a bit of time with Mario, do you have any memories of him?
MF: Yes - Mario, besides Bobby Porcelli and another wonderful musician that has passed away, Dick Mesa, Mario along with those other two, were probably my biggest influences in the Latin American music scene. Mario was probably one of the most devoted and dedicated musicians that ever existed; he lived all types of music. He was also a virtuoso doubler. He played all of the reeds, all of the flutes, trumpet, percussion – he played so many instruments. I actually used to sub for him with Tito’s Latin Jazz Ensemble, before Tito combined the Latin Jazz Ensemble and the big band. I also subbed for Mario a couple of times with Tipica ’73. Mario was first call before me, so I would sub for him in different situations. Because of his expertise, he would play tenor, soprano, flute, piccolo, and alto flute in Tito’s Latin Jazz Ensemble. So when I would sub for him, I would have to practice those other instruments that I didn’t play all the time to perform and meet the requirements of the job. So it inspired me to become a better doubler. He actually told me that he would lay all of his instruments on his couch or on his bed and he would just pick one of them up, play it for 10 minutes, put it down, and play another one for 10 minutes, put it down. He’d just get the flexibility of the embouchure and get the lips and the mouth accustomed from one instrument to the other. So that when you pick one up on a gig . . . let’s say you play saxophone for a half-hour and you have to pick up the piccolo right away, or the alto flute right away – you need that lip flexibility. So this was a good way to practice at home, switching from on to the other. So I was definitely influenced by his genius musicianship.
LJC: One of the tracks on the latest Latin Giants album, “Cookin’ The Mambo,” features you trading solo lines with Peter Brainin.
MF: Peter’s a fantastic jazz musician, he has his own voice. On “Cookin’ The Mambo,” we did two takes, and I actually liked the way Peter and I sounded on the other take. I think there were some mistakes in some of the background figures that the rest of the horn section had, so they chose to use that take. It’s a wonderful track on the record, but maybe one day they’ll release the other take. Like sometimes in jazz records they release the outtakes. But it was a wonderful experience. We did all that stuff live – me and Peter stood up in the recording session. We didn’t overdub any of the stuff; all the solos that you hear on the record were done on the spot within the context of the performance.
LJC: Touring with the band must set up some interesting financial and logistic challenge . . .
MF: Yea, it’s tough. At the level that we are, we don’t double up as far as rooms go. We tour between 19 and 21 people, depending on the budget. If we’re able to take a couple of extra coro singers, we do. If not, we tour with 19. So that’s 19 airfares, 19 hotels, 19 salaries . . . but when it’s worked, it’s a magical band. There’s no other band in the world today that plays that style of music – that Palladium style of big band music; the Tito Puente, the Machito, the Tito Rodriguez style of music – there’s no other band in the world today. I’m not saying this for egotistical reasons, its just because of the personnel there, there’s no other band that plays that music on the level of the Latin Giants. Because the musicians in the band played with the masters. They didn’t play in bands of the children of the masters; they played with the Tito Puentes, with the Tito Rodriguezes, with the Machitos, with the Mongo Santamarias, with the Eddie Palmieris, with the Celia Cruzes. These are the guys that created those records. And also with the vision of Johnny Rodriguez, who is basically the greatest bongo player for this style of music in the world, and the musical direction of Joe Madera, who I like to call the Quincy Jones of this music – he’s really reached the pinnacle of arranging in this music. Although we still have the greats like Ray Santos, and a few other people who are still with us, I think that Joe has reached the top of the field of arranging in that style of music. It’s really the equivalent to the Count Basie or the Duke Ellington Orchestra for the type of music that we’re doing.
LJC: You’ve played with the Spanish Harlem Orchestra quite a bit.
MF: I’m an original member of Spanish Harlem Orchestra. My good friend Oscar Hernandez is the leader. He was in my band, The Bronx Horns, and fortunately, he asked me to be a member of the Spanish Harlem Orchestra. I think that I’m the last original horn player that’s still in the Spanish Harlem Orchestra. Actually, I think along with one of the vocalists, Ray De La Paz, I’m one of the last original members still playing with Spanish Harlem, and fortunately, I’ve been there since the beginning. For the type of music that we play, it’s also at the top of the food chain. For what they call Salsa Dura, or the Fania All-Star style, you know, that type of seventies and eighties salsa, its as good a band out there as there is.
LJC: I see a similarity to The Latin Giants of Jazz, not musically, but what you do in terms of approach and quality.
MF: Right, it’s an all-star band, made up of predominantly musicians that came up in the New York scene during the seventies and eighties. We’ve gone through some personnel changes over the years, but that was the original concept. Where the Latin Giants represents the top of the food chain of that Palladium era type of music, the Spanish Harlem Orchestra represents the top of the food chain for the New York salsa band sound from the seventies, eighties, and the Fania All-Star period. It’s really the authentic way that the bands played it when we were coming up. I played mainly with Tito Puente and Mongo Santamaria, but there’s guys in the Spanish Harlem Orchestra that played with Ruben Blades, Ray Barretto, Johnny Pacheco, and many of the wonderful bands in that golden period in New York.
LJC: One last thing, what I see with the Latin Giants and the Spanish Harlem Orchestra is really keeping those traditions alive. What do you see for the future of those styles past Spanish Harlem or the Latin Giants? Do you see someone else picking up the ball?
MF: I’m sure. There’s wonderful musicians out there, wonderful bands. This music is not going to die, there’s always a love and appreciation for it. I’m sure that just like we came up with Spanish Harlem at a time when there was room for it to be heard, I’m optimistic that good things will continue.
In the same way with the Bronx Horns, I would like to continue that tradition of Latin Jazz and smaller groups. Where the Latin Giants and Spanish Harlem are a bigger level, I’d like to follow the Tito Puente Latin Jazz Ensemble, the Mongo Santamaria Latin Jazz Band – the smaller Latin Jazz groups. With the Bronx Horns, I’d like to continue that tradition. So with each of the groups that I’m playing in, we’re trying to continue the traditions and further the music of the different eras that I’ve been fortunate to be a part of.
